Joke Hermes on her new chair: ‘Television brings people together’
Many Dutch people feel that polarization is increasing in politics and the media. Talking about television can make the world a bit more friendly, believes Joke Hermes, who since June holds the chair in the history of Dutch radio and television.
“In 2024, the average Dutch person watched more than two hours of television a day,” says Joke Hermes, newly appointed professor. Starting in June, Hermes will hold the Erik de Vries Chair in the History of Dutch Radio and Television at the University of Amsterdam, succeeding media historian Huub Wijfjes. With that significant viewing time as a starting point, she will delve into the radio and television archive of the Netherlands Institute for Sound and Vision.
So, you know everything about Dutch television and radio?
“I have to admit that I’m not actually a historian, but an audience researcher. I mainly look at how people experience media. I personally watch a lot of drama and sports—especially football. To be honest, my TV menu is quite one-sided. I find it empowering, as a layperson, to use the vast archive of the Institute for Sound and Vision for something that hasn’t been done before.”
Which program from television history has stayed with you?
“The British series The Persuaders, with Hungarian-American actor Tony Curtis: sports cars and slick characters who foil crimes. I still watch crime series—right now it’s Mobland. I really enjoy it. And of course, there are football moments from the past that have stayed with me, from the days of Gullit and Van Basten. Although I was always a fan of Gullit, I disliked Van Basten.”
Three-quarters of Dutch people feel that society is becoming increasingly polarized, especially in politics and the media. You’re going to focus on how television can reduce polarization. How can television help counter polarization?
“There’s a lot of polarization these days—it often comes down to quick opinions and sharp statements. Television can actually be a reason to slow the conversation down and let go of that reflex. It provides a shared point of reference and therefore a framework for friendly conversation.”
“At Inholland University of Applied Sciences, I work as a lecturer on issues around inclusion: how do you ensure that no one is excluded? For that research, I organize interviews with many different people. In those conversations, we often use fragments from television programs—not because they’re directly related to the topic, but as a way to establish a pleasant connection. You might start with, ‘Have you seen anything good on TV lately?’ or, ‘That reminds me of that one series.’ That way, a conversation opens up, and people begin to share more.”
“One general lesson I’ve learned is that people often don’t realize how ambivalent they are in their judgments. For example, you might talk to someone who is very worried about ‘all those asylum seekers in our country.’ But then, through a small TV example, they suddenly realize: ‘Oh right, he was an asylum seeker too—and maybe he wasn’t so bad after all.’ Something that started out polarized suddenly becomes an open conversation. Those are the best moments—when general judgments can be turned around through conversations about television.”
Joke Hermes studied political science at the University of Amsterdam, where she also earned her PhD with research on women’s magazines and everyday media consumption. Since 2004, she has served as Professor of Inclusion and the Creative Industries at Inholland University of Applied Sciences. She also worked at the University of Amsterdam for 41 years as a lecturer in Media and Culture. Hermes was co-founder and editor of the European Journal of Cultural Studies. She is vice-chair of the Scientific Council of the Media Literacy Network and chair of the advisory board of the European Communication Research and Education Association (ECREA).
How can the archive of the Institute for Sound and Vision contribute to this kind of research?
“There’s untapped potential in using the archive in conversations with others. You can watch someone’s favorite scene or a shared television memory together. Even when I talk to people who think completely differently from me politically, it helps tremendously to first find common ground via a television moment that you can reflect on together.”
“For example, I used the old series Zeg ‘ns Aaa, where the housekeeper is portrayed in a misogynistic way. Nowadays, we see that very differently than we did in the past. Looking back on this television moment together gives you a way to continue the conversation on that topic.”
“Additionally, the Vision and Sound archive shows how these stories have changed over time. That historical perspective is essential for media literacy: understanding who creates content, with what interests, and how that shapes our view. For instance, we once thought the internet would automatically lead to greater emancipation, but now we realize we’ve become commodities for large media companies. By understanding past and present media, you can approach new media more critically.”
These days we watch more through streaming than ‘regular’ television. Can that also have a connecting effect?
“Streaming is just as watching TV. You can watch alone and binge a series—something that’s been possible since DVDs thirty years ago, or even VHS before that. You can also watch together, either silently or while talking about it. What other medium offers that full 180-degree spectrum of possibilities?”
“The great thing is that TV sets the agenda. It’s usually not that you experience something and then look for a program about it—it works the other way around. You watch something, and it brings a topic to mind, sparking conversation and idea exchange with others. Television—whether through streaming or not—can therefore be a connecting force.”
