UvA researcher: “The biggest misunderstanding of post-growth is that everyone has to consume less“
A green energy transition based on economic growth won’t help us out of the climate crisis. For that, the world will have to “de-grow,” starting with the richest part of it. City planners can help, writes environmental planning expert Federico Savini in his new book Post-Growth Planning: Cities beyond the market economy.
Upon entering his office on the Roeterseiland campus, Federico Savini, associate professor of environmental planning, institutions and politics, immediately starts talking about the open letter in Folia in which 30 scientists from the Faculty of Natural Sciences, Mathematics and Computer Science oppose the UvA decision not to start any new collaboration with fossil industries for the time being.
Do you agree with that letter?
“No, we should stop investing in Shell and only invest in what makes sense. For the past 40 years, we have invested in mainstream sustainable strategies that we call ‘green growth.’ That contains the assumption that you can separate economic growth – what we measure in GDP (gross domestic product) – from environmental pollution, carbon emissions, and material depletion. The result is zero: it achieves nothing. Studies in various scientific journals show that. So we have to take a different path.”
That brings us to your book, Post-Growth Planning. But before we go there, how long has the idea of a growth-oriented economy actually existed?
“Growth thinking originated in classical economics: the idea that economics is separate from ecology. After World War II, governments started investing in GDP growth to generate income and therefore well-being. That no longer works nowadays. GDP is only a measure of well-being, happiness, and satisfaction up to a certain point. For example, U.S. well-being is equal to that of Colombia, while U.S. GDP is much higher. In addition, economic growth is harmful to the environment, creates social division, burnout, stress, and unhappiness. The economy should focus on well-being and the environment. That seems simple, but it would change our whole system.”
More specifically, what does a world without economic growth look like? What is still there and what isn’t?
“It’s about giving up the obsession with GDP and looking at what we need. It will be about welfare, healthcare, and a healthy environment. For that, we need to produce less and consume less. And do fewer things that are not necessary, such as flying regularly. The argument is often that it's necessary for the economy.”
And because people like it.
“No, who likes flying?”
People like to go on vacation, for example.
“I’m not talking about people who fly to Ibiza twice a year, but the people who take the plane twice a day for 50 kilometers. 60 percent of all flights are taken by 10 percent of the people who fly. The problem is not the middle-class family that flies a few times a year. A millionaire consumes a billion times as much as the average person. The richest 10 percent of people in Europe consume five times more than the poorest 50 percent. Extreme wealth has a huge environmental impact. We have to do something about that.”
I often wonder: what can I do differently in my life?
“That is the great misunderstanding of the post-growth debate in this country at the moment: that everyone must consume less and sacrifice quality of life. It’s the result of 50 years of neo-liberal and growth-dependent thinking: we think we’re all equally responsible. But that’s not true; only the rich should de-grow, not the lower middle class. The poorer social class needs to have access to more resources to improve their well-being. Post-growth, or ‘de-growth’ is primarily a social project. For a better climate, we must share the blame and responsibility fairly.”
These ideas probably don't appeal to super-rich people.
“No, they don't, but the majority of people are not super-rich. So in a democracy, you can sort that out.”
How will you address that?
“We have to start by creating knowledge and awareness in the media and in education. Then we need to develop a strategy democratically through consultation in different ways and levels, such as through public participation evenings, about what needs to be reduced, and what needs to be improved. We need to ask questions, e.g., what is too rich? What do you think is too much? And what services do you need to be healthy and happy? We need to make people aware of their own consumption patterns. In schools, we need to explain to children that we should consume less and find satisfaction in non-material values.”
So the middle class should consume anyway?
“It’s about telling people that you can’t consume everything forever. And that there is great excess in our economy that does not benefit everyone and needs to be reduced. You need to make people aware that excessive consumption is not ethical.”
You write in your book that urban planning is also closely linked to economic growth. Could you explain that?
“Since the 1980s, cities have been the engines of economic growth. Real estate and R&D are important sources of income. 600 cities account for two-thirds of the global economy. This is the result of city planning. Planners design cities to attract jobs, business centers, and stores. In doing so, cities have become less livable; there is little nature or contact with animals.”
What would post-growth urban planning mean for a city like Amsterdam?
“It means investing in the economy of care, education, welfare, and regeneration. More culture, more hospitals, more schools, more universities, more biodiversity. That requires people and jobs, but not that many materials. And it means withdrawing some funding for things that are harmful to the environment, like big airports and fossil fuels. The port of Amsterdam, for example, would have to undergo a transition. No luxury homes, but homes for families, fewer highways, more public transportation. Using empty offices for other purposes, and so on.”
It sounds like a left-wing political agenda.
“No, mainstream left-wing politics still focuses on growth, often with the idea that it creates jobs. But in a post-growth world, there are actually many jobs that are better and more evenly distributed, while automation at Schiphol actually reduces the number of jobs. So we have to choose carefully which jobs to invest in.”
How can you build cities to consume less?
“People don't just consume less by themselves. For that, they either have to be aware, or the space has to nudge them toward other things. If there are only stores in a city, people go shopping. If there is art everywhere, people will go to the theater. Post-growth planners think about this and design a green space where meeting people is central and consumption is not encouraged.”
But leftist political parties are more likely to embrace those ideas.
“Yes, they are. But why would that mean that liberals in the middle wouldn’t find those ideas appealing? For example, if I were the manager of the port of Amsterdam I would be worried about the future. With climate change, sea levels are going to rise, and there will be higher costs and fewer materials. I would consider investing in a different economy, even if I were right-wing and liberal. For the economy of the future, we need to deinvest in some sectors and invest in others. The science is very clear: climate change is going to have catastrophic consequences. That's why we need democratic degrowth now.”
Federico Savini, António Ferreira, Kim von Schönfeld, Post-Growth Planning Post-growth planning: Cities beyond the market economy. (Routledge, 2022) Price: €40.50.
